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Offline Alzeranox

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Cultures of Weyard
« on: April 28, 2011, 09:22:05 pm »
I just recently completed my second playthrough of the game, paying more attention to the cultures of the previous golden age, so this first part will be about them.

On Ancient Weyard

From what I can come up with there are the Jenei, Exathi, Fori, Beastmen

The Jenei can be subdivided into various groups, some speculation here, including the Neox, the various clans (Mercury in Imil, Mars in Prox, Umbra, etc) Ankohl, and more than likely some others that havent been though of yet.
Of the clans, I think can be said that they were left as stewards from the previous Golden Age to watch over the lighthouses while the rest of the Jenei population dwindled.  I personally think that the Umbra clan was an offshoot of the Neox that pushed towards the mastery of light and darkness, and consequently the sealing of Alchemy to stop them.

The Exathi as described in the game were master craftsmen.  We are presented with three cultures from these decendents.
Those at Passaj, master smiths and armorers.  Those at Ayuthay, master masons.  And lastly, those at Port Rago, master shipwrights.  There are probably others around Weyard that will be in the fourth game.

The Fori are the simple folk, not much is said about them except that there was nothing special about them, hence them being called simple folk.

The Beastmen are the group that most people dont like.  (I think the idea of having an entire race of furries is a bit off, but this was made in Japan, pardon the prejudice)  At first I was completely against it, then I started thinking about them similar to those at Garoh.  It stuck for a while, but it still didn't seem right.  The beastmen seem fundementally different from the lycanthropes in that, the beastmen are fully fledged beasts changed, or humans that reverted to a more beastial form, due to  the release of alchemy during the Golden Sun Event.  The people of Garoh can only change into werewolves during the full moon.  So with that idea gone, I finally realized that oddly enough, having an entire race of beastmen does fit.  Imagine people with heightened scenes, like Wolverine (The guy from X Men), except an entire race of them.  They are all more like superhumans, with a furry side effect.  They have psyneregy, but from whats seen in DD, its more nature based than raw power.  They are the ones that did most of the construction of the Apollo lense, while the Jenei were the designers, as no doubt they were for every alchemy machine.

A little bit more on the Umbra Clan.  While at the Apollo Lens, I noticed that someone said something along the lines of "Where is it pointed, at Tuaparang or Mt Aleph?"  (Despite what it looks like, that is not a direct quote)  I took that as, Tuaparang is nearby Mt Aleph.  I think that when the Golden Sun was lit, it released more than just alchemy.  I think it may also have unlocked or led to Alex unlocking the prison for the Umbra Clan, and consequently reviving them.  Does it really make sence though that the prison for those that tried to take over Ancient Weyard was also under the place of the core of alchemy? It may also be the reason why the psynergy vortecies are all located nearby Mt Aleph.  As is evident in the Konpa Ruins, the Tuaparang are the ones behind them using their machines, though some may occur naturally. 

"Modern Cultures of Weyard"


This part will be about the influences, geography, and some etymology of Angaran Cultures.

Go to http://www.gs-adeptsrefuge.com/dd/images/worldmap.jpg for the DD map, I'd post it here but its massive

Okay, I'm going to have to shift the GS1 map around a little bit, because some things were there in Dark Dawn that should have been there in GS1 that weren't
The places I believe were there prior to the Golden Sun Event (GSE) are, Konpa, Harapa, Passaj, Ayuthay, Craggy Peak Ruins, Teppe Ruins, Belinsk, Port Rago, and The Endless Wall.
Where I believe these places would have been are:
* Konpa, just underneath the first bridge that Master Hammet crossed over when he left vault on the small strip of land.  As the GSE remolded the land, the Bilibin Mountain Range would have closed with the range north of Kalay, crushing it in the center and making it the only pass north and south. (Besides the pass at Carver's Camp which appears to have opened with the GSE)
* Harapa, would have been in the mountains almost directly south of Kalay.  During or shortly after the GSE, the mountains flattened out pushing northern Gondowan further south, opening up the Karagol Sea to the Eastern Ocean.  I believe that this is where the earthquake diverted its path pushing Kalay further west to the other side of that mountain range, because its clearly not accessible in DD, but it does still exist.
* Passaj, in the mountain range of the southern part of the Lamakan Desert, which when pushed up to become to snowy area would have dropped Passaj right where it needed to be, while the rest of the range continued to move north leaving Craggy Peak at the appropriate location.
* Ayuthay, on the small peninsula, southeast of Kalay. Pushed down forming a larger peninsula during the GSE.
* Craggy Peak Ruins, as stated in the Passaj post, in the southern central part of the Lamakan mountain range.
* Teppe Ruins, placed in the northern Lamakan range, one of the reasons its suffering so badly is due to the sudden change from such an arid climate to one freezing in a high altitude.
* Belinsk, this one is tricky, I would place it's ruins just east of Bilibin, on one of those outstretches of land, like Harapa, I think once the beastmen grouped up, and the Fang Tribe became the established leadership, they moved fast, rebuilding much of Belinsk while polishing up a lot of what was already there.
* Port Rago, I dont think much happened with this other than that it was just not mentioned in GS1&2. I'd place it on the far eastern edge of Angara, somewhat north.
* The Endless Wall, surprisingly flexible, placed mostly on the northern Lamakan range, managed to shift during the GSE without much damage done.

More to come in this section but I need a break
« Last Edit: April 29, 2011, 04:03:13 pm by Alzeranox »
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Offline Ronnie

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Re: Cultures of Weyard
« Reply #1 on: April 29, 2011, 09:40:14 am »
Seems about right the only thing I don't agree with is the Beastmen, I wouldn't say it's entirely impossible for them not to be related to the Garoh werewolves because if we take into account the sealing of alchemy caused a slow descent for all the cultures. Adepts who could use these massive machines and techniques dwindled to more standard moves like catch (Proxian warriors I'm assuming needed more powerful methods to continue surviving) and the Exhati were all but gone in the previous games, Obaba was the only one left from the Ankhol. So I wouldn't say it's much of a stretch to believe the Beastmen require mass amounts of psynergy to maintain their forms (and extra causes the Beast mode maybe?) and so to survive reverted to humans and animals but carried the gene to be reawakened with the return of alchemy, Garoh is near a pysnergy stone in Air's Rock which might explain why they continued to transform but only on a full moon (people in Belinsk claim the beastmen who used to be human get a real kick around the full moon) unless they went to the heart of Air's rock and so gained enough psynergy to awaken their true Beastman form, like what happened to Maha who was pretty much a Beastman when we first met him.

Beyond that I think it matches up pretty well and the Fori are pretty much sidelined...no wonder there's meant to be a faction that hates adepts and alchemy, we better meet these people next game because that would be interesting.

Offline Alzeranox

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Re: Cultures of Weyard
« Reply #2 on: April 29, 2011, 02:48:36 pm »
hm... I was going to start this post off with something about Anemos being the moon, and consequently that being the reason that the moon effects psynergy, but I think that Luna probably predates Anemos.  I hadn't thought of it like that, it pretty much explains everything about the people of Garoh (Garans? Garohians? Garese? idk), and how they relate to the Beastmen, I like this solution.

I forgot to mention, I've heard a couple of things about the Proxians, not sure how much is true, but I think in some pictures they have been detailed as having scales on parts of them, we know that they are immune to the freezing temperatures of the north, and I think that they may be part beastmen, or at least dragonmen.  This may be the result of past influence of the Mars Lighthouse, or perhaps direct intervention of the Wise One.
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Offline Lunar Eclipse

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Re: Cultures of Weyard
« Reply #3 on: May 03, 2011, 02:27:14 pm »
I'm going to agree with Ronnie on beastmen. I do believe the people of Garoh are beastmen, but while alchemy is sealed, they only actually become beasts when the elements that govern their powers are strongest. First, they live in a region generally favorable to Jupiter where the breeze from Airs Rock carries particles of psynergy stones to them, giving them the ability to cast psynergies like Whirlwind (similar to Sveta). When Maha receives too much Jupiter power, he is transformed permanently. Second, when Luna is full, it draws out their beast forms regardless of how strong their respective Jupiter psynergies are. The people of Belinsk also note that they have a strong connection to the moon, and that's part of why Volechek activated the Grave Eclipse in the first place. He thought bringing about an endless age of Luna would make them even more powerful and allow them to crush those who discriminated against them, perhaps Bilibin in particular. So, both societies have strong connections to Jupiter and Luna. I'd say that if we could visit Garoh again (assuming they haven't moved to Belinsk), they'd be permanent beasts now as well.

A little bit more on the Umbra Clan.  While at the Apollo Lens, I noticed that someone said something along the lines of "Where is it pointed, at Tuaparang or Mt Aleph?"  (Despite what it looks like, that is not a direct quote)  I took that as, Tuaparang is nearby Mt Aleph.  I think that when the Golden Sun was lit, it released more than just alchemy.  I think it may also have unlocked or led to Alex unlocking the prison for the Umbra Clan, and consequently reviving them.  Does it really make sence though that the prison for those that tried to take over Ancient Weyard was also under the place of the core of alchemy? It may also be the reason why the psynergy vortecies are all located nearby Mt Aleph.  As is evident in the Konpa Ruins, the Tuaparang are the ones behind them using their machines, though some may occur naturally.

I doubt Alex freed them. It's possible that he knew they were of the Umbra Clan all along (though he doesn't seem to indicate as such in dialogue; it seems he pieced it together while working with them), but if he'd been actively looking for them and unleashed them from some ancient alchemic prison, they surely would've realized that he knew they were Dark Adepts, or at least not normal Adepts. They wouldn't have been at all surprised by his revelation at the Apollo Lens.
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Offline RMPunos

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Re: Cultures of Weyard
« Reply #4 on: May 03, 2011, 02:51:21 pm »
On the topic of the cultures, to me it seemed odd that so many societies could come into prominence and create entire cultures in the small 30 years between LA and DD.  I know that the world is geographically changing, and some societies remain, but entire civilizations seem to appear out of no where to me, I think I would have preferred a less changed world.   I suppose the beastmen could be explained as developing from the people of Garoh.  Also, I think because of this lots of the cultures lack a developed history within the game, hurting the storyline.  as for the wall, I believed that to be post-GSE industrialism, rather than a flexible entity.
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Offline Lunar Eclipse

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Re: Cultures of Weyard
« Reply #5 on: May 03, 2011, 05:44:36 pm »
On the topic of the cultures, to me it seemed odd that so many societies could come into prominence and create entire cultures in the small 30 years between LA and DD.

I don't see why it's such a problem. We know several of the cultures already existed during the original set of games but were either inaccessible or not noteworthy without alchemy in play. The only nation we're forced to accept as truly "new" is Morgal, which makes sense considering the beastmen needed a home once their new appearances were permanently awakened by the Golden Sun event since they faced persecution from Sana and Bilibin alike. Beyond that, Patcher's Place and Carver's Camp are simple refugee shelters created by the people of Vale, Tonfon (and therefore Sana) always existed though it was explicitly stated to have been previously locked in the mountains, Kaocho was created as an outpost when Sana became more expansionist post-GSE, Harapa and Konpa were buried, Passaj and Ayuthay were dying tiny settlements pre-GSE and not worth visiting, Yamata is just all of the people from Izumo transplanted slightly because of the tidal waves, and Kalay, Champa, Bilibin, Tolbi, Imil, and Kolima, the main areas from the original Angara, are all either visited or said to still exist. Xian and Altin are the main unexplained parties, but it's easy to assume Xian still exists as part of the Sanan Empire and that the ruins beneath Altin were part of the Endless Wall, hence its destruction when the wall rises.

I know that the world is geographically changing, and some societies remain, but entire civilizations seem to appear out of no where to me, I think I would have preferred a less changed world.

I don't really see that it changed that much. We visited different places, but aside from Morgal developing with the advent of beastmen and Sana becoming expansionist under Emperor Ko and then fragmenting under Unan and Wo (perfectly reasonable within a 30-year timeframe), everything else seems relatively unchanged. Lady McCoy is still obviously a jerk, the former people of Vale still seem to get along fine, Kalay still seems to be a major trading region, Champa and Yamata still are what they always were aside from being affected by the Grave Eclipse and tidal waves respectively, Kolima seems the same, and they need not offer explanations for Passaj and Ayuthay since their histories are accurately explored and they're explained to have been societies on the verge of extinction before their revival (Bogho mentions that everyone was abandoning Passaj and that he wishes the people he grew up with could see it restored to splendor when the walls rise).

as for the wall, I believed that to be post-GSE industrialism, rather than a flexible entity.

I'm pretty sure the Endless Wall is a relic of the past. As I mentioned earlier, I'm pretty confident the Altin ruins are a piece of it, plus the mechanism on the main gate seems pretty clearly ancient.
« Last Edit: May 03, 2011, 05:51:37 pm by Lunar Eclipse »
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Offline Oh so random.

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Re: Cultures of Weyard
« Reply #6 on: May 03, 2011, 11:04:10 pm »
I made this a few months ago, but it pretty much covers all the land shift from TLA to DD.



Offline Varying Delusions

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Re: Cultures of Weyard
« Reply #7 on: May 04, 2011, 12:50:45 am »
I'm sorry but why do you think Jellicent is a good pokemon?
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Offline }Schiavo{

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Re: Cultures of Weyard
« Reply #8 on: May 05, 2011, 10:20:31 pm »
That is such a great question.

Offline sunsoulaevis

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Re: Cultures of Weyard
« Reply #9 on: May 06, 2011, 01:20:49 am »
@Alzeranox:
That part about Tuaparang.I think the qoute you were looking for is this one"Based on your Trajectory,your target is Tuaparang(the flying ship)...or perhaps the area around Sol Sanctum..."-Alex to Blados & Chalis about the trajectory of Apollo Lens

And this about Tuaparang is helpful for your "prison" they were in.
"The mysterious land of Tuaparang:Tuaparang was an ancient country that one day vanished from weyard.Decades later it abruptly reappeared aboard the enourmous flying ship and having renamed itself the Zenith Tribe"-Bookcase in Sana Palace.

So it vanished then reappeared it is possible they were exiled from Weyard.Or something to that affect.And the GSE caused it's barrier to be lifted.And then Tpang reappeared over the past few decades(like *ahem* the last 30 years) when the golden sun began reviving Weyard.Which would mean it vanished just before/right after the GSE? Hhmm.

But who knows why it vanished in the first place?
And seeing how it is a country I don't see it being in the area around Mt.Aleph.
(UNLESS, it was underneath it and that is why Mt.Aleph sank.And perhaps explains the Tanglewoods dark alignment.The Umbra Clan beneath a sanctum devoted to the sun.(lol)...Madness I know.)


The problem is we don't actually know were the country was located prior to vanishing.Nor do we know how many decades actually passed.I tried to at least partially support your theory^^;.

About psynergy vortexes they appear in areas around Mt.Aleph
"The vortexes are pure anti-psynergy created by exceptionally dense concentrations of psynergy."-Issac

I guess because Mt.Aleph is the origin of psynergy the psynergy in denser and thus vortexes appear.
Or
"Either way,the Elemental Lighthouses that triggered the Golden Sun event are at the heart of the problem"-Issac about Kraden's theory on vortexes

So perhaps the vortexes are a natural phenomenon due to some imbalance of psynergy.

And the Tpang machines,We don't know what they do.But like you said it could cause Psynergy Vortexes (some of)them.Or perhaps it siphons the devoured psynergy from the vortex and stores it.

Anyways,this thread is very interesting.
-Btw if you ever need qoutes I'm your guy.Got pages of 'em on all 3 games...

Edit:Oh and from a technical standpoint the Beastmen could be considered Exathi(even though they were never stated as such) Because they had helped to build The Apollo lens.Which would make them craftsmen in a sense...

And wasn't Ayuthay hidden underneath Lamakan desert.I think Harapa was too.
« Last Edit: May 06, 2011, 04:17:24 am by sunsoulaevis »

Offline Lunar Eclipse

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Re: Cultures of Weyard
« Reply #10 on: May 06, 2011, 04:57:14 pm »
And wasn't Ayuthay hidden underneath Lamakan desert.I think Harapa was too.

I think saying Ayuthay was hidden within would be more accurate. Harapa was a completely uninhabited ruin that was exposed by shifting sands and then was populated during the 30 years after the Golden Sun event. Ayuthay, on the other hand, would have been accessible during the original games had the party cared to go there. It just seems that they lived a meager, difficult existence without the aid of the Alchemy Well.
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Offline sunsoulaevis

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Re: Cultures of Weyard
« Reply #11 on: May 06, 2011, 05:50:09 pm »
Indeed sir, that is possible,since the game itself did not mention it(Ayuthay) was in ruins,like Harapa.It only came to light 20 years ago with the activation of the well.Makes you wonder how the hell their citizens survived with no easy access to water for such a long period of time...

Offline Alzeranox

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Re: Cultures of Weyard
« Reply #12 on: May 06, 2011, 09:47:30 pm »
Holy Crap, I disappear for a couple of days taking care of real life events and come back to check and its taking off, I'm probably going to get back to this on Monday, thanks for all the comments everyone, ill make some revisions based on some things you guys brought up, and just saying here, the etymology I was referring in the above post is going to be about the suffix npa, as in konpa, lunpa, harapa (a variation but the same root I'm sure) and possible meanings and origins.
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Offline Lunar Eclipse

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Re: Cultures of Weyard
« Reply #13 on: May 09, 2011, 01:46:52 pm »
... the etymology I was referring in the above post is going to be about the suffix npa, as in konpa, lunpa, harapa (a variation but the same root I'm sure) and possible meanings and origins.

Hm ... I'm not sure where you mentioned this to begin with since I don't see it in the original post, but the transliterations they used in the English-language versions are different from what was originally intended, and I think that if we're looking for some sort of underlying correlation, it needs to work in the original version. Konpa is actually Gompa (ゴンパ), which refers to Buddhist fortifications of the same name used for learning and religious purposes. If it were actually Konpa (コンパ) in Japanese, it would refer to, uh, college parties with alcohol. Harapa should be Harappa, which is an archaeological site in the Punjab region of Pakistan. As such, I really can't see drawing any sort of linguistic parallels between them (and the random character name of Lunpa) when they're based on real-world places that don't have any relation.
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